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Re: Australian Railroad Crossing Signals

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:00 pm
by freebrickproductions
McK&H.Aust wrote:
TrickyMario7654 wrote:I've really had it with these stupid Victorian bell nazis butchering all the level crossings! :Mad:
It's very frustrating and saddening and it's not just VIC but pretty much all of Australia. We are basically down to 2 kinds of bell (Safetran type 3 or WCH e-bells), plus General Signals e-bells in Melbourne.

Most new Australian installations are very predictable, with only 2 kinds of gate mechs (Safetran or WCH) and 2 kinds of lights (Westinghouse or United Group). Gone are the days of having an interesting variety of equipment on our crossings :Awww:
Same could be said about many American crossing installs, especially along the Class I railroads...

But then again, one could argue that it's always been the case, even before merger fever.

Re: Australian Railroad Crossing Signals

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:19 pm
by McK&H.Aust
freebrickproductions wrote:
McK&H.Aust wrote:
TrickyMario7654 wrote:I've really had it with these stupid Victorian bell nazis butchering all the level crossings! :Mad:
It's very frustrating and saddening and it's not just VIC but pretty much all of Australia. We are basically down to 2 kinds of bell (Safetran type 3 or WCH e-bells), plus General Signals e-bells in Melbourne.

Most new Australian installations are very predictable, with only 2 kinds of gate mechs (Safetran or WCH) and 2 kinds of lights (Westinghouse or United Group). Gone are the days of having an interesting variety of equipment on our crossings :Awww:
Same could be said about many American crossing installs, especially along the Class I railroads...

But then again, one could argue that it's always been the case, even before merger fever.
Merger fever of the railroads or the crossing equipment makers? I guess both have contributed to the current situation.

Re: Australian Railroad Crossing Signals

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:27 pm
by TrickyMario7654
McK&H.Aust wrote:
TrickyMario7654 wrote:I've really had it with these stupid Victorian bell nazis butchering all the level crossings! :Mad:
It's very frustrating and saddening and it's not just VIC but pretty much all of Australia. We are basically down to 2 kinds of bell (Safetran type 3 or WCH e-bells), plus General Signals e-bells in Melbourne.

Most new Australian installations are very predictable, with only 2 kinds of gate mechs (Safetran or WCH) and 2 kinds of lights (Westinghouse or United Group). Gone are the days of having an interesting variety of equipment on our crossings :Awww:

Here is another classic crossing about to be butchered on August 7, this time the Old Hume Hwy at Glenrowan which is having gates installed
https://extranet.artc.com.au/docman/Doc ... 2114453485

It's a shame that the teardrop bell was replaced, but at least they used a hybrid.
https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-36.469 ... 312!8i6656
I still think that NSW is better off than VIC in terms of nice crossings.

For instance if it was Victoria, these NSW gateless crossings you've would of probably already been upgraded by now.
Burley Griffin Way, Springdale
Tamworth Road, Werris Creek
Werris Creek Road, Werris Creek
Werris Creek Road, Currabubula
Goldfields Way, Old Junee
Burley Griffin Way, Yoogali (Yes, I'm aware that an upgrade with gates is proposed at this crossing)
New Street, Gunnedah (Overpass to replace this crossing in the near future)
A lot of the gateless crossings in Tamworth
Many others too

Re: Australian Railroad Crossing Signals

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:22 am
by freebrickproductions
McK&H.Aust wrote:
freebrickproductions wrote:
McK&H.Aust wrote:
TrickyMario7654 wrote:I've really had it with these stupid Victorian bell nazis butchering all the level crossings! :Mad:
It's very frustrating and saddening and it's not just VIC but pretty much all of Australia. We are basically down to 2 kinds of bell (Safetran type 3 or WCH e-bells), plus General Signals e-bells in Melbourne.

Most new Australian installations are very predictable, with only 2 kinds of gate mechs (Safetran or WCH) and 2 kinds of lights (Westinghouse or United Group). Gone are the days of having an interesting variety of equipment on our crossings :Awww:
Same could be said about many American crossing installs, especially along the Class I railroads...

But then again, one could argue that it's always been the case, even before merger fever.
Merger fever of the railroads or the crossing equipment makers? I guess both have contributed to the current situation.
Railroads mainly. For the latter, it seems that it was more of companies just going defunct rather than merging. Though sometimes even the modern railroads will use a variety of equipment over the years. For example, let's take CSX's standard signal equipment from the 1980s: (Lists in italics need confirmation.)

1980s install ver. 1:
Bases: WCH
Lights: WCH 8 inch
Bells: WCH
Gate mechs: WCH
Cantilevers: MI
Cantilever Lights: MI 8 inch (mast), MI 12 inch (overhead)

1980s install ver. 2:
Bases: WCH
Lights: WCH 12 inch
Bells: WCH
Gate mechs: WCH
Cantilevers: MI
Cantilever Lights: MI 12 inch

1980s install ver. 3:
Bases: Safetran
Lights: Safetran 12 inch
Bells: Safetran
Gate mechs: Safetran
Cantilevers: MI
Cantilever Lights: MI 12 inch


1990s install:
Bases: Safetran
Lights: Safetran 12x24 inch
Bells: WCH
Gate mechs: Safetran
Cantilevers: Lincoln Industries
Cantilever Lights: WCH 12x24 inch

Late 1990s/early 2000s install:
Bases: Safetran
Lights: Safetran 12x24 inch
Bells: General Signals Type 1/ASC
Gate mechs: Safetran
Cantilevers: Harmon
Cantilever Lights: Harmon 12x24 inch

Early to Mid 2000s install:
Bases: Safetran
Lights: Safetran 12x24 inch
Bells: General Signals Type 2
Gate mechs: Safetran
Cantilevers: Lincoln Industries
Cantilever Lights: Safetran 12x24 inch

Mid to Late 2000s install:
Bases: Safetran
Lights: Safetran 12x24 inch
Bells: Safetran Type 2/3
Gate mechs: Safetran
Cantilevers: Lincoln Industries
Cantilever Lights: Safetran 12x24 inch
LEDs: Dialight

Late 2000s/Early 2010s install:
Bases: Safetran
Lights: Safetran 12x24 inch
Bells: Safetran Type 3/GE
Gate mechs: Safetran
Cantilevers: Lincoln Industries
Cantilever Lights: Safetran 12x24 inch
LEDs: WCH 2nd Generation

Early to Mid 2010s install:
Bases: WCH
Lights: WCH 12x24 inch
Bells: NEG
Gate mechs: Invensys Rail/Siemens
Cantilevers: Lincoln Industries/Progress Rail
Cantilever Lights: WCH 12x24 inch
LEDs: WCH 2nd Generation

Current installs:
Bases: WCH
Lights: WCH 12x24 inch
Bells: NEG
Gate mechs: Siemens
Cantilevers: Lincoln Industries/Progress Rail
Cantilever Lights: WCH 12x24 inch
LEDs: Leotek EV Series

I'm pretty sure I have that right, or as accurate as I can get it.

Re: Australian Railroad Crossing Signals

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:35 am
by McK&H.Aust
freebrickproductions wrote:
McK&H.Aust wrote:
freebrickproductions wrote:
McK&H.Aust wrote:
TrickyMario7654 wrote:I've really had it with these stupid Victorian bell nazis butchering all the level crossings! :Mad:
It's very frustrating and saddening and it's not just VIC but pretty much all of Australia. We are basically down to 2 kinds of bell (Safetran type 3 or WCH e-bells), plus General Signals e-bells in Melbourne.

Most new Australian installations are very predictable, with only 2 kinds of gate mechs (Safetran or WCH) and 2 kinds of lights (Westinghouse or United Group). Gone are the days of having an interesting variety of equipment on our crossings :Awww:
Same could be said about many American crossing installs, especially along the Class I railroads...

But then again, one could argue that it's always been the case, even before merger fever.
Merger fever of the railroads or the crossing equipment makers? I guess both have contributed to the current situation.
Railroads mainly. For the latter, it seems that it was more of companies just going defunct rather than merging. Though sometimes even the modern railroads will use a variety of equipment over the years. For example, let's take CSX's standard signal equipment from the 1980s: (Lists in italics need confirmation.)

1980s install ver. 1:
Bases: WCH
Lights: WCH 8 inch
Bells: WCH
Gate mechs: WCH
Cantilevers: MI
Cantilever Lights: MI 8 inch (mast), MI 12 inch (overhead)

1980s install ver. 2:
Bases: WCH
Lights: WCH 12 inch
Bells: WCH
Gate mechs: WCH
Cantilevers: MI
Cantilever Lights: MI 12 inch

1980s install ver. 3:
Bases: Safetran
Lights: Safetran 12 inch
Bells: Safetran
Gate mechs: Safetran
Cantilevers: MI
Cantilever Lights: MI 12 inch


1990s install:
Bases: Safetran
Lights: Safetran 12x24 inch
Bells: WCH
Gate mechs: Safetran
Cantilevers: Lincoln Industries
Cantilever Lights: WCH 12x24 inch

Late 1990s/early 2000s install:
Bases: Safetran
Lights: Safetran 12x24 inch
Bells: General Signals Type 1/ASC
Gate mechs: Safetran
Cantilevers: Harmon
Cantilever Lights: Harmon 12x24 inch

Early to Mid 2000s install:
Bases: Safetran
Lights: Safetran 12x24 inch
Bells: General Signals Type 2
Gate mechs: Safetran
Cantilevers: Lincoln Industries
Cantilever Lights: Safetran 12x24 inch

Mid to Late 2000s install:
Bases: Safetran
Lights: Safetran 12x24 inch
Bells: Safetran Type 2/3
Gate mechs: Safetran
Cantilevers: Lincoln Industries
Cantilever Lights: Safetran 12x24 inch
LEDs: Dialight

Late 2000s/Early 2010s install:
Bases: Safetran
Lights: Safetran 12x24 inch
Bells: Safetran Type 3/GE
Gate mechs: Safetran
Cantilevers: Lincoln Industries
Cantilever Lights: Safetran 12x24 inch
LEDs: WCH 2nd Generation

Early to Mid 2010s install:
Bases: WCH
Lights: WCH 12x24 inch
Bells: NEG
Gate mechs: Invensys Rail/Siemens
Cantilevers: Lincoln Industries/Progress Rail
Cantilever Lights: WCH 12x24 inch
LEDs: WCH 2nd Generation

Current installs:
Bases: WCH
Lights: WCH 12x24 inch
Bells: NEG
Gate mechs: Siemens
Cantilevers: Lincoln Industries/Progress Rail
Cantilever Lights: WCH 12x24 inch
LEDs: Leotek EV Series

I'm pretty sure I have that right, or as accurate as I can get it.
Very interesting list there, I'm surprised how little Harmon equipment was used by CSX. Interesting how they now use NEG bells, haven't heard any in person but they seem a bit quiet to me. I guess it comes down to price, but I've always thought that the Safetran type 3 had a better sound quality compared to GS or NEG bells.

Re: Australian Railroad Crossing Signals

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:05 am
by TrickyMario7654
McK&H.Aust wrote:Very interesting list there, I'm surprised how little Harmon equipment was used by CSX. Interesting how they now use NEG bells, haven't heard any in person but they seem a bit quiet to me. I guess it comes down to price, but I've always thought that the Safetran type 3 had a better sound quality compared to GS or NEG bells.
Still better than those adjusted GS Type 1's Metro loves using to replace the better sound hybrid bells. :aaargh:

Anyways, I've found the news report (from 1994) featuring the Leumeah level crossing (you see it beginning at 1:06), and it has the same equipment as you mentioned. I like what that guy says about crossing the rails at the location and how they mention that all level crossings in Sydney are to be abolished by 2010. Well, they've only done a few since then. :Tongue1:


It also mentions a level crossing accident at Vineyard. Looking at the news report on the aftermath, it was pretty serious. You can see an overhead view as well, and judging by that, I believe the accident occurred at the ironically named Level Crossing Road crossing.
https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-33.641 ... 312!8i6656

Re: Australian Railroad Crossing Signals

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:29 am
by freebrickproductions
McK&H.Aust wrote: Very interesting list there, I'm surprised how little Harmon equipment was used by CSX. Interesting how they now use NEG bells, haven't heard any in person but they seem a bit quiet to me. I guess it comes down to price, but I've always thought that the Safetran type 3 had a better sound quality compared to GS or NEG bells.
Thanks! It also seems that Harmon equipment may have been briefly used on the mid-1990s installs, but I've only seen one crossing like that (on the P&A Sub in Quincy, FL), so I don't think it was standard. Harmon lights also seem to have been replacement equipment of choice for lights that were damaged and had to be replaced there for a while, as I've seen several crossings with a Harmon light mixed in with the others.

NEG e-bells range from being "okay" and "soft" to being extremely quiet. It appears that Safetran Type 2s also had that issue, which is probably why only three are known to exist on the NS system as a whole. Personally, I prefer Safetran Type 3s as they're louder, plus they don't sound like a quieter knock-off of a General Signals Type 2. I think the reason why CSX (and UP) use NEG e-bells is that they buy their signals through NEG, so they probably get some kind of discount on the bell itself, if I had to guess.

Though, also as a counterpoint to the CSX list, here's Norfolk Southern's list, showing how little their crossings have changed since the 1980s:

1980s/early to mid 1990s installs:
Bases: Safetran
Lights: Safetran 12x24 inch
Bells: Safetran
Gate mechs: Safetran
Cantilevers: Safetran
Cantilever Lights: Safetran 12x24 inch

Mid to Late 1990s:
Bases: Safetran
Lights: Safetran 12x20 inch
Bells: Safetran
Gate mechs: Safetran
Cantilevers: Safetran
Cantilever Lights: Safetran 12x20 inch

Late 1990s/Early 2000s:
Bases: Safetran
Lights: Safetran 12x20 inch
Bells: General Signals Type 1
Gate mechs: Safetran
Cantilevers: Safetran
Cantilever Lights: Safetran 12x20 inch

Mid to Late 2000s/Early 2010s installs:
Bases: Safetran
Lights: Safetran 12x20 inch
Bells: General Signals Type 2/Safetran Type 3
Gate mechs: Safetran
Cantilevers: Safetran
Cantilever Lights: Safetran 12x20 inch

Early 2010s to 2014 installs:
Bases: Safetran
Lights: Safetran 12x20 inch
Bells: General Signals Type 2/Safetran Type 3
Gate mechs: Invensys Rail
Cantilevers: Safetran
Cantilever Lights: Safetran 12x20 inch
LEDs: GE Uniform Look (LED installs from this time period are very rare, due to LEDs only having been adopted in 2014)

2014 to 2016 installs:
Bases: Safetran
Lights: Safetran 12x20 inch
Bells: General Signals Type 2/General Signals Type 3/Safetran Type 3
Gate mechs: Siemens
Cantilevers: Siemens (with RACO logo on the boxes)
Cantilever Lights: Safetran 12x20 inch
LEDs: GE Uniform Look (Incandescent installs from this time period still occurred)

Current installs:
Bases: SSiemens
Lights: Safetran 12x20 inch
Bells: General Signals Type 3/Safetran Type 3
Gate mechs: Siemens
Cantilevers: Siemens (with RACO logo on the boxes)
Cantilever Lights: Safetran 12x20 inch
LEDs: GE Uniform Look (Incandescent installs still occur)

Though, there are also a few weird hiccups in NS's installs, such as the aforementioned Safetran Type 2s. Another weird bell that got installed by NS was the WCH mechanical bell, but as with both bells, if they weren't from the predecessor railroad (especially in the case of WCH mechanical bells), they only appear to have been installed to replace an older mechanical bell from what I've seen. Another interesting thing I've seen NS install are US&S Model 95s, but those seem to only be limited to the Carolinas, where they're an uncommon find, and don't get use outside of that part of the country on NS's system. But probably the weirdest signal I've seen NS install is this signal in Chattanooga, TN with a WCH base and WCH 12x20 inch lights, while the rest of the equipment is fairly standard NS stuff. The signal was installed between August of 2007 and April of 2011, according to street view, and is the only signal like it installed by NS, as far as I'm aware.

Re: Australian Railroad Crossing Signals

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:54 am
by McK&H.Aust
TrickyMario7654 wrote:
McK&H.Aust wrote:Very interesting list there, I'm surprised how little Harmon equipment was used by CSX. Interesting how they now use NEG bells, haven't heard any in person but they seem a bit quiet to me. I guess it comes down to price, but I've always thought that the Safetran type 3 had a better sound quality compared to GS or NEG bells.
Still better than those adjusted GS Type 1's Metro loves using to replace the better sound hybrid bells. :aaargh:

Anyways, I've found the news report (from 1994) featuring the Leumeah level crossing (you see it beginning at 1:06), and it has the same equipment as you mentioned. I like what that guy says about crossing the rails at the location and how they mention that all level crossings in Sydney are to be abolished by 2010. Well, they've only done a few since then. :Tongue1:


It also mentions a level crossing accident at Vineyard. Looking at the news report on the aftermath, it was pretty serious. You can see an overhead view as well, and judging by that, I believe the accident occurred at the ironically named Level Crossing Road crossing.
https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-33.641 ... 312!8i6656
Nice find there, made me laugh how the guy thinks the kids are hard done by because they have to cross the tracks :LOL3:
The crossing at Vineyard where the accident happened had flashing lights at the time (the car driver didn't stop for the lights), it had been upgraded from passive protection in 1991 and not long after the accident they installed gates (surprise surprise). I think there will still be level crossings in Sydney for many years to come, not enough votes to justify their removal, people seem to want fancy new freeways instead.

Re: Australian Railroad Crossing Signals

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:42 am
by McK&H.Aust
freebrickproductions wrote:But probably the weirdest signal I've seen NS install is this signal in Chattanooga, TN with a WCH base and WCH 12x20 inch lights, while the rest of the equipment is fairly standard NS stuff. The signal was installed between August of 2007 and April of 2011, according to street view, and is the only signal like it installed by NS, as far as I'm aware.
I wonder if some of the weird NS installs happened because of damaged crossings which needed to be replaced in a hurry, so they used whatever equipment they could get hold of quickly? Or equipment that was meant to be installed at a particular crossing was diverted elsewhere after an accident.

As far as Australia goes, I think Victoria was the most stable, they almost exclusively used Westinghouse equipment during the 1980's and 1990's. NSW was all over the place with WCH, Harmon and Westinghouse equipment being used simultaneously around the same time period.

Re: Australian Railroad Crossing Signals

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:54 am
by Username1
So I called metro to report the dead e bell around 1:30 today, and it''s currently getting replaced right now.