Mike's Railroad Crossing Forum

You've all seen them cameras at red lights and to nab you speeding but theres another kind, one thats usually not talked about, that would be railroad crossing enforcement.
Webster Groves, Mo put up a camera at a very troubled crossing rock hill rd it was installed the Beginning of May 2008 and according to WGPD
it has caught in the first year and a half roughly 1,100 citations . When they first installed these cameras it made me laugh, but then I saw a car blow under the descending arm one day and saw it go off (then it really made me laugh). Then I though in a few days this dummy is going to get a $125 fine and made me think will that guy EVER run a railroad crossing again, Or is the system just full of hot air, a money generator. Since then I have done a ton of research and found the following.
http://www.rxrsignals.net/Missouri/Webs ... Rock_Hill/
http://tti.tamu.edu/conferences/rail09/ ... derson.pdf
The states using photo enforcement as far as I know are,
California--http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-NUP6hq ... re=related
Texas--19th St, 23rd St, Northeast 8th St, Grand Prairie Tx
Illinois-- Illinois 19/Irving Park RD, Wood Dale, Illinois--River Road, Naperville, Illinois
Missouri--Rock Hill Rd Webster Groves

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UT ... 6,,0,-2.24

Pictures http://picasaweb.google.com/TrainmanKig ... -rzjOWIpwE#
http://tti.tamu.edu/conferences/rail09/ ... nt8850.mpg
video^

http://tti.tamu.edu/conferences/rail09/ ... truck.mpeg

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UT ... 79,,0,0.99

I'll continue to add to this with things i find and feel free to ask questions and post reply of your own

This has been an on/off hot topic around here because the cameras are owned by a private contractor who gets a chunk of the fines for his trouble. It's been noted that some intersections that have these cameras also have yellow light durations that are shorter than allowed.

It's also noted that camera equipped intersections have a higher than normal occurence of rear end collisions. People get the yellow, presume it's short, slam on brakes needlessly, boom: whiplash attorney enters picture.

gedunk wrote:This has been an on/off hot topic around here because the cameras are owned by a private contractor who gets a chunk of the fines for his trouble. It's been noted that some intersections that have these cameras also have yellow light durations that are shorter than allowed.

It's also noted that camera equipped intersections have a higher than normal occurence of rear end collisions. People get the yellow, presume it's short, slam on brakes needlessly, boom: whiplash attorney enters picture.

I've traveled all over the U.S. and have studied and seen these cameras, the yellow light must be lit no less than 3 seconds thats the Federal standard.
on the west coast the left turn arrows usually last 3 seconds while the main light is 4 seconds,
here in Missouri lights are yellow for 4.5--5.5 seconds Florida's lights are usually 4.8 seconds.
Alabama where i live part of the year has a 55 mph speed limit the yellow lights used to be 5 seconds which was fine then they lowered it to 3.5 seconds and even i came real close to running the light and i had a friend i was driving with and he totally missed it light turned to yellow so he hit the gas and insted it turned red right before we cross the white line. I guess the traffic department finally got off their ass and fixed it but its still only 4.3--4.5 seconds if you see the yellow before the lines in the road turn solid you have to slam on your breaks and send every thing in the car into the windshield if you try to speed up youll clip the light and semi have no chance if it turns yellow in that specific spot.
heres the light my friend and I ran http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UT ... .8,,0,-0.7 its an old image so it doesn't show the traffic light

theses lines here http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UT ... 4,,0,12.21
i have learned that if you get to the solid part of the line before the light turns yellow you'll make it through.
the only thing I dislike about the cameras is redflex one of the largest company is foreign just like most of the camera corps however the cameras used in st louis are by American Traffic Solutions which is a U.S. corp in Scottsdale, AZ.
and yes i believe about 20% of the ticket goes to them however its for the cost of the cameras once the cost of the cameras are covered its all the citys money.
thats what i love about the cameras is there free ats came in and installed them then the dummys that run the light pay for the cameras and here in st louis the money from the cameras is used to upgrade traffic lights.
rear end collisions YES in Tennessee rear end wreck went up 23% however side impact crashes went down 11%. also MPD says all rear end wreck the people involved said it had nothing to do with the camera that it was just tail gating.
many citys have been caught shorting yellow lights to catch more people.
IMO the west coast while I wasn't there long doesn't seem to have a bad issue with red light running and to me just seems like a money maker, as their cameras tickets are much more then other places.
however he is Missouri, Tennessee and Florida red light running is VERY serious here are some clips
very few found in the west


Rochester New York 2 violations


huge compilation


Tampa Fl installed the much needed cameras and in no time they were catching violations
part one release is a Caution Cameras are up
title Red Light Runners Beware! The Cameras Will Catch You Night and Day. Here's Proof.


then a few months later they release a second clip titled
Round 2: More Red Light Runners


and just recently they release a third one titled
Round 3: Red Light Runners Can't Outrun The Cameras

what SHOCKS AND HORRIFIES me is i figured when they put these cameras up they'd catch people just barley missing the light, instead of this, it's really scary to think you share the road with these people. there was one runner that an officer was reviewing and he called his chief over to review it, at thet point they called ATS to make sure what they saw was correct. ATS confirmed and said we even tested our system after this and it was working fine, Some one BLEW through the light that was red for 48 SECONDS!!!!!

Well I went to Webster Groves Mo the other day and decided to take a few videos of Rock Hill Rd crossing, while I was there Union Pacific Was doing track maintenance. They were running ballast regulators, tampers and such around and over the crossing causing the signals to activate a few times,
was there 15 mins and caught this.

The first person at 1:57 I could understand, as he reached the tracks before the gates even went down. The second person was stupid though.

weatherdan882002 wrote:The first person at 1:57 I could understand, as he reached the tracks before the gates even went down. The second person was stupid though.

The law in Missouri is once the lights come on you MUST stop, not hit the gas which is what that suv did and he crossed the tracks 4 seconds after the lights started up. They do have a grace period thou and that is 3.5 seconds. Anyone who crosses 3.5 seconds after the lights start up gets a $100 ticket. The speed limit on this rd in only 25 so thats plenty of time to stop.

Hopefully both fighthe ticket and win because there was no train.
It should be considered a malfunction.

If they do not win, I'd sue the railroad for the cost of the ticket plus my time fighting it.


Driving an authorized emergency vehicle red lights and siren through a Photo Red Light intersection, I was flashed and received a ticket.
(The page shows four color photos with speed, how long signal was red, etc, information.
Also a 13-second video could be viewed on line.)

The firsthree such "violations" were canceled after I sent relevant information to the PRL department.
Though I submitted the same information for a fourth violation, they did not cancel that citation.

Even though I was in telephone, e-mail and mail contact with them, they had me served.
(I would have to pay the $35 service fee on top of the $75 fine and court costs.)

Went to court and made the PRL woman look like a fool, (did not want to do that) and won.

Same situation, but a $45 service fee, compeled me to court for a fifth violation. I won again. (They paid the service fees.)

The 6th and 7th occasions that I wenthrough that red signal, the camera did not take pictures.

A radio talk show attorney said to talk to them if Photo Red Light compels another appearance in court.
I may sue them for harassment and my time and costs going to court.

Now I do believe these things are very helpful, but they should have a relay so that it catches actual violators. The people who go around, under, and through gates. Perhaps it should work somewhat how the bell works. It should detect how low the gate is, when the gate reaches a pretty good degree of lowering, the camera should become active. Any violations should be caught after that.

Similar for when the gates are raising. Perhaps have it to where the cameras deactivate when the gates are high enough for the average car the go under them.

Good idea or not? I'm just giving some ideas, and part of my .

Cheers,
Joshua

SantaFebuff wrote:Now I do believe these things are very helpful, but they should have a relay so that it catches actual violators. The people who go around, under, and through gates. Perhaps it should work somewhat how the bell works. It should detect how low the gate is, when the gate reaches a pretty good degree of lowering, the camera should become active. Any violations should be caught after that.

Similar for when the gates are raising. Perhaps have it to where the cameras deactivate when the gates are high enough for the average car the go under them.

Good idea or not? I'm just giving some ideas, and part of my .

Cheers,
Joshua

a red light is a red light, the city is in it for the money mainly and safety is a plus the cameras cost money to fund them the have to catch ppl running the xing instead of hitting the gates. Its photo Enforcement thats there to aware the public of dangers on railroad crossing running

Robert_Gift wrote:Hopefully both fighthe ticket and win because there was no train.
It should be considered a malfunction.

If they do not win, I'd sue the railroad for the cost of the ticket plus my time fighting it.


Driving an authorized emergency vehicle red lights and siren through a Photo Red Light intersection, I was flashed and received a ticket.
(The page shows four color photos with speed, how long signal was red, etc, information.
Also a 13-second video could be viewed on line.)

The firsthree such "violations" were canceled after I sent relevant information to the PRL department.
Though I submitted the same information for a fourth violation, they did not cancel that citation.

Even though I was in telephone, e-mail and mail contact with them, they had me served.
(I would have to pay the $35 service fee on top of the $75 fine and court costs.)

Went to court and made the PRL woman look like a fool, (did not want to do that) and won.

Same situation, but a $45 service fee, compeled me to court for a fifth violation. I won again. (They paid the service fees.)

The 6th and 7th occasions that I wenthrough that red signal, the camera did not take pictures.

A radio talk show attorney said to talk to them if Photo Red Light compels another appearance in court.
I may sue them for harassment and my time and costs going to court.

YOUR FIRST COMMENT IS IRREVERENT
the DAMN law is the law it doesnt matter if signals are malfunctioning or NOT Missouri Code - § 304.035
and in both cases the signals were activated by on track machines that DID cross the crossing many times.
Number 2 who, what, where and when were you operating a emergency vehicle and got caught by a red light camera, also if you did you proceed through the light with lights on the ticket would be voided unless it was found it was unsafe also you said THREE violations where the hell was this i bet the cameras were the redflex traffic systems those things suck
but as far as safety check this clip out from a st louis red light camera tell me who was at fault